There is a considerable amount of buildup within the MSM™ (Mainstream Media) and without, about the probability that Iran will acquire nuclear weapons soon. Soon means anywhere from 6 months to 16 years. There is no consensus on the time frame, just that it will happen.
There is considerable angst over this development, one that everyone should have seen coming for a very long time. There is a lot of questioning as to what will happen if they do get The Bomb™.
While I am no foreign policy genius or have any special knowledge coming from within the government (or outside it for that matter), I might have a little insight into this from a conversation I had about 25 years ago.
In the early 1980’s, I was working my way through college. My parents did not have the money to put me through school so it was up to me to borrow and earn enough to do it myself. One of the jobs I had was at the LSU (Louisiana State University – Baton Rouge, LA) Student Union.
I waited on tables during lunch and helped out during other times in the “catering service”. Right away I realized this was not going to be a “normal” job in that most of my co-workers were from other countries. There is a little loop-hole that allows foreign students to work on a student visa as long as they are doing so on campus. We used to joke around that we were in a virtual United Nations. I would like to note one huge exception: we got a lot of work done! Our Manager insisted on an proper “work ethic” so we were not allowed to lounge around on the clock. That didn’t mean we couldn’t talk to each other, we just couldn’t goof off.
One group of students I found particularly interesting were the Iranians. They were all male and all refugees from the Khomeini led Revolution. They were students when the Shah was ousted, and they continued to be students for as long as they could.
I had questions for them and they had questions for me. It worked out well, actually. They regarded me as almost a sister. I was at LSU without immediate family, which was odd to them. (Never mind I could get my Mom or Dad on the phone easily.) I was also very open and straightforward with them on any subject. I shook my finger at them when they spoke in Farsi to each other (“You’re in America, speak English, especially in public and work is a public place!”) I told them what slang words meant (“If a guy called you a “fag”, he did not mean that as a compliment. It is not a cigarette; I don’t care what your dictionary said.”) In return, they told me about their home and culture.
I also began to appreciate the fact that they were in a very bad place. If they did not get governmental “approval”, their student visa would expire and they would have to go back to Iran. Iran, at this time, was busy fighting Saddam Hussein and those that did the fighting for Iran, were generally not going home in one piece.
In order to get governmental approval they had to keep on the good side of the Iranian governmental snitch on campus. I don’t recall the guy’s name, but I recall his smiling face. I hated him a great deal for what he was doing because in essence, he was a spy. (I will now refer to him as “The Snitch”.)
The Snitch was everywhere. I saw him frequently. The more I saw him, the more I realized the guys I knew would immediately become uncomfortable and different. This only made me hate The Snitch more.
One day, I noticed The Snitch in the kitchen during lunch hours, a time we were at our busiest. I approached the guy and told him he needed to leave because we were so busy and we needed to get to work. He left very quickly.
Later on, the student that was speaking to The Snitch, was quiet while we were working. He was lost deep in thought. Suddenly, he turned to me and said, “You Americans are so stupid!!” It shocked me at the way he almost spit it out and how emotional he was. This was not like him. Also, I knew this guy would jump at the chance to stay in America because he was coming to love our country. I sputtered out, “what do you mean? Amercian citizens? American government? What?”
He said, “Your American government!” It is sooo stupid!”
All I could do is stand there and blink at him.
He then began to explain how under his student visa, he needed cooperation from the Iranian government. The Iranian government had their own set of things they wanted from a student. These things were requested through The Snitch. It seems that every semester, an engineering student would be asked to take a class in nuclear physics. The intent was to find someone that could “figure it out”. The “it” in this case, was a “nuclear bomb”. He stopped for a moment and let that sink in.
He then turned to me and said, “They only need two; One for Israel and one for the United States.”
I looked at him and guffawed a bit. “Oh come on”, I said to him, “just two?”
He looked at me as serious as I had ever seen him. Normally, this guy was laughing and joking. He was not doing that now.
“They only need two, one for Israel and one for the US either in Washington, D.C. or New York. If they had that, they would be very, very happy. You have no idea”.
He turned and continued with his work. He then said, “But don’t worry. I won’t get it at all. I will probably make a “C”, maybe even a “D” in this class. It will screw up my GPA, but I can tell now that I cannot learn this”. He turned to me and winked.
You have to ask yourself, how many students around our country didn’t “wink”? How many actually “got it”?
So here we are, 25 years later. Iran’s quest for The Bomb™ has not been very hush-hush. It has been a very long term goal. I found out about it just listening and watching a bunch of students 25 years ago.
In the meantime, I have to concede that my friend’s initial analysis may have been correct: The U.S., for that matter Americans in general, have been very stupid. We have not taken these fanatics in charge of the country very seriously. So now it is time to pay because the moral of my friend’s story is this: once they have the bomb, they will use it. They only wanted 2. I’m betting they will have more.
I am also willing to bet that if they do get it, and use it, the scientists and technicians that built it will have been educated in the United States or some other open Western country.
That makes us pretty stupid: we gave our enemy the information to hurt us.
In the meantime, I’m praying that those in position of leadership make very wise, very brave decisions.
I hope you do the same.
Filed Under Uncategorized ·
This an excerpt for Slate’s article on Joe Wilson and his repeated Lying of the behalf of the democratic party which is playing fast and loose with our safety and security
http://www.slate.com/id/2140058/
Take that permanent smirk off your face, Ambassador (and the look of martyrdom as well, while you are at it). It seems that your contacts in the Niger Ministry of Mines—the ones that your wife told the CIA made you such a good choice for the trip—didn’t rate you highly enough to tell you about the Zahawie visit. It would, interestingly, have been a name you already knew. But you didn’t even get as far as having to explain it away—or not until last week—because you were that far in the dark. I
what Hitchen is explaining is that Joe wilson
DAMN WELL KNEW THAT SADDAMS POINT MAN WAS IN NIGER LOOKING FOR YELLOWCAKE
Remember “Peanut Head” Carter turmed his back on the Shah and let Khomeini rise to power. He believed all the B.S. from Khomeini. He helped to start this whole mess.
The claim in the past was that Iran attempted to buy “yellowcake.” The alleged “proof” were documents that were forgeries. And pretty bad ones at that.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/mines.htm
Since 1988, Iran has reportedly opened as many as 10 uranium mines, including the Saghand uranium mine in Yazd province, as well otherwise unspecified locations in Khorassan, Sistan va Baluchestan, and Hormozgan Provinces, and in Bandar-e-Abbas and Badar-e-Lengeh Provinces along the Gulf. The Director of the Iranian Atomic Energy Organization, Reza Amrollahi, announced in 1989 that the expected reserves of these deposts was in excess of 5,000 tons.
Uranium resources of Iran are not considered rich. The results of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran (AEOI) exploration activities have shown proven reserves of about 3,000 tons of Uranium so far. According to the discovered indices (more than 350 anomalies) and the results of the field discoveries, the expected resources of Iran could be at the range of 20,000-30,000 tons of U3O8, throughout the country. Therefore Iran’s domestic reserves might be sufficient enough to supply the raw material for needed nuclear power plants in future.
(snip)
Ree-C,
The fact that Iran has been trying for nukes for that long is scary. It makes you wonder how much knowledge of nuclear weaponry they have gained. Your friend’s unhappy reaction to being forced to take the class is telling:
I would loosely compare the situation in Iran to Venezuela. Hugo Chavez (madman that he is) really doesn’t have a lot of popular support. I’d venture to say that most Venezuelans despise him. I’d further venture to say that the same is true in Iran.
via LGF:
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-04-17T145215Z_01_L16762568_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST-IRAN-PALESTINIANS.xml
It’s not that I think Iran’s nuclear ambition isn’t worthy of concern. Nukes in the hands of a madman like Ahmadinejad are a big problem. But I also believe that, like most dictators, he lacks the support of his populace, which will limit his ability to be the “big-shot” he wants to be.
If history has taught us anything, it is the fact that technological secrets are rarely secrets for long.
I am not comfortable with the wack job in Iran having the bomb, but pulling back I am also less comfortable with the U.S, the E.U., or the U.N. telling any nation what they can or cannot do to defend themselves.
How many of you would accept the U.N. telling the United States to disarm? Isn’t this exactly what we are telling the Iranians? Sounds kind of arrogant on our part.
One could counter that why do they need a nuclear bomb? Who would invade them? Rational or not, I suppose our invasion of Iraq has fed those fears in the Iranians, even though in the long term our invasion of Iraq will work to help Iran. (It may have even been their idea…Chalibi, the darling of the neocons, was working for the Iranians)
This issue will be solved internally in Iran and not by an invasion or military attack. The resolution will take years if not decades, which may not fit well with the impatience of the American political process. Eventually, modernity and the youth will tire of the mullahs and religous fanatics.
I could be wrong.
Simple
Oh what a tangled web we weave!
Jaimie
you pasted something from a “Think-Tank” called Global Security org
It is owned and Operated by the Employees of Pike Consulting (They have the Same addresses in a cheap run down building in Alexandria Va)
This guy is a crackpot……… My father is a highly respected worldwide Physicist listened to him for 15 minutes with the faculty of Tulsa Univ and Penn State………Nutso dude
Off of his own website for Pike Consulting here are his testimonials that Pike himself posted
Pike … has emerged as the country’s top independent expert on Star Wars research … talking about what government officials can’t — be it Star Wars, the Pentagon’s `black budget’ … ” — Mother Jones
” … a skilled, inside-the-beltway operator and a master at dispensing anti-Star Wars one-liners to the media. As an indefatigable lobbyist, Pike probably did more than any single individual to throw sand into the gears of the administration’s pro-SDI propaganda machine. The SDI program may have been a moving target, but it could not hide, even for a moment, from an analyst like Pike.” — Nuclear Times
Mr. Pike is regularly quoted in the press and has provided what some Congressional staff members consider the best analyses of the arms control implications of specific `star wars experiments’.” — The New York Times
Simple, if history has taught us anything about the Middle East, it is that modernity and youth will not fix it, nor will internal politics. At least not with a speed that will keep fanatical leaders from causing much mayhem and destruction on those they see as enemies. If you read Ree-C’s post, you would see that Iran’s nuclear posture has nothing to do with feeling the need to protect itself, it is based on a base need to do harm to those they disagree with.
#6 Simple,
Considering that Iran sponsors terrorists who blow up women and children in bakeries and coffee houses, I don’t think it’s arrogant at all.
#9
Dead center right on
#10
Amen
#6 do you believe any of that trip you just typed?
Answer this: why do they hate us so badly?
Undoubtedly that’s true, which is roughly the point I was making in #5. The problem is that the whack-job who is surrounded by light when he speaks may act more quickly with his nukes than the time it takes Iranians to reform from within. The big question is “can we afford to wait them out?”. With Israel hanging in the balance, I’m not so sure we can.
“They” who, Headshaker?
Isreal has shown in the past that they will not wait to pull the trigger. If someone doesn’t do
something Isreal will and they will use nukes.
#14 Dude - the Iranians who want to nuke us (allegedly).
Shaker, does it matter why they hate us? If a murderer comes up to me and says he wants to kill me, I am pretty sure I am not going to spend time trying to understand what I have done to wrong him, instead I think I will defend myself. And why do you add allegedly? When the leader of the country says he wants to nuke us, I think you can say that they want to nuke us.
My hairdresser is from Iran, fleeing from Khomeini Revolution. They were students when the Shah was overtaken. Her father had been an officer under the Shah, therefore they were in Khomeini sights. Her father had seen the changes coming and made available their flight here, where they went to LSU. Her father was killed on orders from Khomeini. She told of students being confined to quarters, I can’t remember if/or at LSU and other colleges because of our fear of Iranians and not knowing their predisposition. Also, she mentioned, that some Iranians still have clandestine meetings with the son of the Shah at different cities and locations. All done under clock and dagger type stuff. She relates of the ‘meetings’ in Iran. We see on TV the mass of people in the large courtyard, well, the ‘power people’ go up and down streets with bull horns telling them to congregate at the courtyard. They have to go, altho some hide, I am told. Then we see them on TV striking themselves with chains, which I don’t understand. And they hate us.
The snitch is correct. If they hit Israel first its done. If they set one off in New York or DC this country is done. The panic,the bank runs,the cell phones will go down,white people will look for supplies and blacks will loot all the good plasmas and Nike shoes.
The theory they have to hit a lot of targets here is BS. All they need is one or two and you can kiss it all goodbye.
Ouch Gregg. Not a very nice comment about the looters. But I agree with your premise. Time to go to Sam’s for water and canned goods. Time to go to Carter’s Country for more ammo.
Eric,
I would point out that we have gotten used to the idea that the Russians, Chinese, French, Indians, North-Koreans and Pakastanis all have the bomb. All of these guys have some form of ICBM technology.
I am not saying that we should not educate the Iranian Leadership and people in the principles of Mutual-Assured-Destruction.
We have enough nuclear submarines to park one in that region.
As for Israel, they should worry more about the population bomb. In twenty years there will be more Arabs in Israel than Jews. Not as dramatic as a nuclear bomb, but just as effective.
Simple
gregg is keepin it real!
To return to the simple theme of meglomaniacal dreams of those feeling dispossessed in the Twentieth (now Twenty-first) Century. I was on a large, predominantly Jewish Eastern campus in 1980 before the election. In poli-sci classes there were a vocal minority of both Saudi and Palestinian students who were emboldened by the Iranian hostage and other terror in Lebanon, to boast that once they (Palestinians by immediate inference but more widely the Muslim world generically) had the bomb and the means to deliver it, Israel would shrink to a small enclave in the Negev and all the West Bank, Gaza and Northern Territory would revert to Palestinian hands, and if the West tried "another Suez" they would use it on us as well. The goal to become a "nuclear club member" whether national aspiration or the delusions of the powerless seeking the biggest club to swing at the perceived oppressor is nothing new. I happened to be a Republican National Committee intern at the same time and one of the senior researrchers was married to a DOD disamament specialist, who confirmed that non-state actors could likely create at least a crude nuclear weapons, and that any nut case could create a radioactive biohazard (today’s parlance Mr. Padilla’s "dirty bomb"). He did little to allay my fears by adding that there was no MAD with rogues whether Libya, PLO or the Iranians, because they were not rational. Soviets or Red Chinese he said we could deal with, because they were Realpolitiker. The Muslim terrorists were jihadim with visions of martyrdom and it was not conceivable to reach an accomodation. This was mid way through Carter’s hostage crisis and led me to a world view I espoused on 9/12 and anytime before or after. Nuke them from the Indus to the Jordan from the Caucausus to the Port of Aden. To preserve the West and its freedoms, the West can not be complacent with religious fanatics set on the elimination of all non-believers. It is not Saudis Whabbists funding radical madrahs throughout the Muslim world, but a particular fundamentalist view of Koranic mission and martyrdom. I have taken the comapartive religions crap and know that "Islam is a peaceful religion" but can the COLORFUL EXPRESSION DELETED and smell the coffee, its practioners are neither peaceful nor rational. Nuke em into the Stone Age to which their neo-medievalism indicates they aspire.
19: Gregg, I think you’re probably right about us. Part of me wants to think that if the Iranians were to attack New York or Disney World or something, Americans would finally wake up and say “enough is enough.”
Sadly, I don’t think that’s the case. After all, our resolve has wavered less that five years after terrorists knocked down the World Trade Center. Even that phrase — “knocked down the World Trade Center” — is so matter-of-fact. It ought to enrage every American.
I think Israel’s a bit tougher, because they’re continually going through the fire. If Iran nukes Israel, Israel might be done. But Iran sure as hell would be. I suspect that if Iran nukes Israel, all of Israel’s neighbors will rush in, and that’s when Israel goes totally berserk and converts a million square miles of Islamic real estate into a glass parking lot.
21
well you were right about the russians
The Chinese may have an ICBM that can reach los Angeles
The Russians have no more operational ICBMs
The rest have regional not sub orbital weapons
Also missed the point you were making about the Arabs in Israel
Is that supposed to be a leaded human sheild for the Israelis?
How does nuking Israel or the U.S. help Iran?
19 and 24
I hope United 93 stir up the reality that GWB doesn’t really care about politics only about cold hard threats
Thousands dead thousands mained in New York
this is not a political test but a one of morals and courage
United 93’s passangers were told it was time to stand up be counted - they weren’t even given time to say proper goodbyes to children and loved ones
Where will we be in two years - waiting for the doom or taking matters into American hands
#27 headshaker
The same way, in chess, when you know you’re going to lose, you threaten the other player’s king, fruitlessly. We call it a “spite check.” It accomplishes nothing concrete, but it makes you feel better as you lose.
#23 Paul Crist
I have to disagree with you. Killing millions of innocents is not the right way to go, regardless of the crimes of others.
I still advocate taking out the extremist Imams, instead. One by one by one…. until there are no more extremist Imams, and the moderates really CAN convert Islam to a peaceful religion. Christianity and the Spanish Inquisition killed many, as well, yet Christianity today would not stand for such barbarity in its name. Islam should be given the chance to evolve in the same manner.
26
HS, honestly, he’s said he’s going to do it
I wish I could explain why
but he’s bound by some religous fiat ot do it
why did they take the embassy
why did they invade Iraq and fight for 10 bloody years
why did they give aid and comfort to Al-Qaeda
Why did they attack American flagged tankers in the straits
#8 Thanks for the info. I’ll keep it in mind when I read GlobalSecurity from now on. But I have to tell you that I have been reading GlobalSecurity for some time and they, so far, have been pretty accurate.
I, despite of what EJ wrote, recommend their site. I challenge anyone to point out anything in GS that has been inaccurate or missleading. Obviously, opinion pieces are just that, opinions. Look at [alleged] fact based reporting.
A man had a flat tire and pulled to the side of the road, right next to a mental institution. He began changing the tire when an inmate stood on the institution side of the fence and watched, very intently, the man change the tire. The man changing the tire got so nervous that he lost the lock-nuts. The inmate told him to take one nut from each of the other tires to put the fourth tire back on. The man was impressed and asked the inmate “how come you are in the mental institution?” The inmate answered “I am here for being crazy, not for being stupid.”
Consider the source, of course, but also consider the content of the information.
I attended Miss. State U. from 1978-1984. I also new Iranians and Persians (yes, there is/was a subtle difference n their mind). Some were refugees from the Iranian Revolution, others supported Khomeni. The Khomeni supporters tended not “have people skills.” The others tended to be more fun loving and laid back and disliked Khomeni strongly. But none, from either side, liked the Savak either. The year of the Iranian Revolution and the Hostage Crisis, the pro-Khomeni Iranians at MSU asked permision from the University’s President to march. The President told them that they could march if they wanted but that their safety could not be guranteed. They did not march but held a rally in the conference room (I thinkg that it was the 2nd floor) of the Student Union. I took a peek. I remember seeing a Khomeni poster but I do not remember anything else - I do not speak Farsi.
Another thing. As far as I remember the uS Constitution, ther is nothing there about the President of these uS also being the President of Israel or of the World.
#17 It does matter why they hate us. A burlgar cannot claim self-defense against the murder, because the home owner shot first. These uS undermined their government and installed a brutal regime of repression through an institution called the Savak. Imagine had these uS been invloved in undermining the Czar and installed the Bolsheviks, who in turn instituted the KGB. I know, it is not exactly like that but the KGB-Savak comparison IS correct. Then these uS encouraged Iraq Hussein’s invasion of Iran. Then these uS, covertly sold military goods to Iran that prolonged the war.
If Iranians, Iraquis, or for that matter Israel ivade these uS will fight them. Until then, the Law of Nations is embedded in the uS Constitution. And the Law of Nations does not allow for interference in internal affairs of another country. We may not like it but, as real Conservatives still remember, these uS are not the World’s Police.
Eric, all those things you listed are not even close to using a nuke.
They won’t do it. They know the consequences. There are reasons why they use the threat. Can you figure it out?
26 “How does nuking Israel or the U.S. help Iran?”
How did 911 help the Islamic cause?
Shaker, can you tell me why they won’t use a nuke? The head of Iran has said he wants an apocalypse to bring on the 12th Iman, something akin to the Christian Second Coming of Christ. Planning national security based on the assumption that others will not make good on threats is not intelligent.
#31
Why did they develop them?
What consequences can there be when you have a spineless political party that blocks everything
Back when hollywood was part conservative they made a wickedly funny movie called the Mouse that roared. The premise was that the smallest country in the world was on hard times so they were going to attack the United states so they could immediately surrender and get all that Marshall plan type aide as we are a compassionate country
What they didn’t bargin for was the Democrats were in power and surrendered faster than a Frenchman in a german brothel
You arn’t french are you HS?
Headshaker,
Consider this:
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/11/184cb9fb-887c-4696-8f54-0799df747a4a.html
The guy is crazy, plain and simple. It doesn’t mean he’s stupid, as Jaime points out, but it does mean we have to be prepared for the possibility that he’ll do what he threatens. If a crazy man was holding a bunch of people hostage in a grocery store, would you just say “ahh… he won’t shoot them… he knows the consequences”? In his rational mind he knows that, but the rational part of his mind is small compared to the irrational part IMHO.
HS
didn’t see any telegrams of congradulations from his Arab Brethren except Hamas, Al Qaeda
Any advanced physics student can tell one how to make a nuclear weapon. I was one. If a person has the knowledge a thing can be done and the math to understand how the precess works, the thing can be done. There are no secrets in science, only varying degrees of ability. Ethics are the only thing that have kept nuclear weapons out of the hands of the idiots. The ‘ethics’ of Islam are in opposition to accepted ethics in western culture. Now we have a problem. The choice is to kill them or be killed. Make a decision and take a side. The end of an age is approaching.
Ree-C, to your anecdote about Iranian students in our universities, I would add my own about Chinese students. And these Chinese students are right there in Houston, right this second, learning all sorts of stuff that will be used against us in the future.
When I was in graduate engineering school at the University of Houston, it seemed to me that about half of the grad students were Chinese. How many of these have gone back to China to contribute to their military programs?
This will be a very interesting century. We seem to have woken up to the fact that the crazies in the Islamic world have been fighting us for about thirty years now. After we are through with them, though, we will face the Chinese.
And what will be the outcome? I don’t know, but as a father of four, it sure worries the heck out of me.
Headshaker sez:
Good question. First you have to realize what you perceive as help, and what Iran’s theocracy perceives as help, are two completely different things. Iran’s religious rulers believe their ultimate responsibility is to please Allah, and if Allah is pleased, that will be beneficial to Iran. They have convinced themselves and their citizens that the most important step toward that goal is to eliminate the Great Satan (that’s us) and reclaim Israel at any cost, including their own deaths. In fact, to die fighting for this cause is not only acceptable to radical Muslims, it is their preferred way to die.
Obviously, we have a different set of values than they do. What you need to remind yourself of is that you cannot use your logic and your values to rationalize their actions. Theirs is a cause built on hatred, oppression, and ignorance.
Imagine your reaction if a group of Iranians came to your door and tried to convince you to strap a bomb to yourself and commit suicide in the name of Allah. Their reaction would be exactly the same if you proposed a culture built on freedom, democracy, and equality, but they would also slit your throat for your trouble.
We cannot reason with these folks. They don’t want to negotiate with us, they want to kill us. So our choice is to completely remove their ability to do that, or accept our fate.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=310788&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y
(snip)
According to Abbas, immediately thereafter Bush said: “God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.”
(snip)
25:
Dude, WHERE do you come up with this stuff? The Russians have lots of ICBMs, and they’re upgrading them constantly.
“According to Abbas” is the qualifier there. I doubt that GWB said that. In contrast, the quote from Ahmadinejad is directly attributed to him.
Matt,
2 problems,
1. they scrapped all their Typhoon and Delta IV balistic missle subs some Delta Iv are mothballed
So all those new missles they were developing are according to Janes All the worlds warships are for naught
2. Russians have NO money for tactical aircraft, tanks, and are rapidly selling all of its arnaments for foreign currency its not likely event though they have a definite missle capability that they can afford billions of rubles for a obsolete weapon of mass destructions
Cruise missles can deliver nukes by plane and by the 5 Oscar II class miussle ships
#40 Jaime
Then it must be true. Yeah, that guy is a real Boy Scout.
http://www.kentimmerman.com/2003_06_30abbas.htm
Matt,
Also their has been a masive brain drain now that russian scientists are free to travel they left wuickly especially the rocket, guidance
They are working for 50 times the pay for Rayethon, Launch Quest, Areobus boeing, my neighbor was the Quality Control director for Boeing for all of the Southeast and he gave me great insight into how quick these guys wer snapped up
Russia can’t even coordinate its oil fields much less put sophisticated weapons systems in the field
war heads yes delivery systems with 11,000 mile reach maybe but not likely
Yes. The Abbas caused me to p a u s e. Haaretz appears to be left-leaning but Bush has said things like that .. and others. The point is that some poeple talk like that.
I knew the source would be questioned.
#12 Did we bother asking that about Hitler?
The Russians have a supersonic torpedo which has been sold to the Chianese. I googled for “supersonic torpedo” and found this, about the Kursk. Hmmm.
“According to Janes Defense, the last moments of the Kursk were recorded as she prepared to fire the Stallion. Seismologists in Norway told Janes that a monitoring station registered two explosions at the time the Kursk sank. The first registered 1.5 on the Richter scale. A second, stronger explosion measuring 3.5 on the Richter scale equivalent to 1-2 tons of TNT was recorded just over 2 minutes later.”
Read the hwole thing here:
http://diodon349.com/Kursk-Memorial/The%20Kursk’s%20Dark%20Mission.htm
#34 Eric
That isn’t even CLOSE to what happened once they arrived here. There was a civil defense drill, so they marched to the University and captured a professor originally from the Duchy of Grand Fenwick and his “quadium bomb.”
They went to war with us because their only profitable export was a wine which was being counterfeited under the name of “Duchy of Grand Enwick.” That’s why they tried the Attack then surrender ploy.
They ended up being in charge, because of the volatility and capability of damage supposed for the “quadium bomb.”
Peter Sellers was the star. Look it up on IMDB.com
Are all of your posts so fact-deficient?
Eric, read the story. Subs aren’t the only way to launch missiles. You’re completely ignoring land-based missiles, either in silos or on vehicles (trucks and trains.) As their missiles are being decommissioned, the Russkies are replacing them with truck-mobile versions. But wait, there’s more:
Read the links, Eric. Whenever you see something in bold, blue text, that’s where you click and learn just how you’re wrong.
Only a liberal would ask “why do they hate us” and why do they allegedly want to nuke us. Why did Hitler hate the Jews? Liberals try and find reason in the minds of madmen. After the war is over and the dead are buried and the world tries to pick up the pieces, the same question will be there that was there after WW2 was over - Why didn’t SOMEBODY do something before it got that far? We are the SOMEBODY and we better do SOMETHING. Liberals, no common sense, no logic, and no self defense.
Wino, FYI, Al Gore invented the Q Bomb.
I am no liberal and I do ask the question “why do they hate us?” An d hopefully as we study history we can learn of mistakes and of stupidity. That we may not repeat history.
If people do not study history, how can they learn from it? And if they do not learn from history, how can they know that they are repeating past misstakes?
This is the meaning of Santayana’s “Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”
To ask why is to study the past.
“Late 1980s: Khan and his network of international suppliers are reported to begin nuclear transfers to Iran. The period of cooperation is thought to continue through 1995 when P-2 centrifuge components are transferred. The Pakistani government claims no transfers occurred after the shipments of P-1 components and sub-assemblies from 1989 to 1991.”
“1987: Khan is believed to make a centrifuge deal with Iran to help build a cascade of 50,000 P-1 centrifuges.”
“1988: Iranian scientists are suspected of having received nuclear training in Pakistan.”
“1989: Iran is suspected of receiving its first centrifuge assemblies and components around this time. The shipped components are likely older P-1 centrifuge components that Khan no longer has use for in Pakistan. Through 1995, Khan is reported to have shipped over 2000 components and sub-assemblies for P-1, and later P-2, centrifuges to Iran.”
“1990: An Iraqi memo, found during inspections in 1995, indicates that Khan may have offered significant nuclear assistance to Iraq in late 1990. He offered to sell Iraq a nuclear bomb design and guarantee material support from Western Europe for a uranium enrichment program. However, Iraq is believed to have turned down the offer, suspecting it to be a sting and no known follow-ups were made after the 1991 Gulf War.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/16/world/asia/16chron-khan.html
“Pakistan has not permitted US personnel to guard N-facilities”
“She also denied reports that Pakistan had agreed to a US request to question its disgraced top scientist A Q Khan.”
http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/apr/18pak.htm
I think we should deliver Iran a working Nuclear bomb and trigger device. Just to show them that we aren’t trying to mislead them, we could detonate it in Tehran, to prove its functionality.
All in the name of a diplomatic resolution.
Matt, If Israel is hit first they wont have a chance to respond. Thats a small area and you saw what our little guys did to Japan.
If one goes off here the panic will be unbelievable. Everyone will think their next and run for the hills. You saw what happened here with the hurricane. Imagine that 10,000 times. No gas,no cell phones,no food,or ac.It will look like a scene out of an old Godzilla movie. People running down the streets screaming in English and their mouths moving in Japanese.
Unless Russia and China start helping there is nothing we can do short of leveling that region. Its time we put pressure on China in a way they have never seen. You help us or an embargo of Chinese made crap starts in 24 hrs. This will hurt Wal-Mart but it has to be done.
Russia the same. You help us or every dime and all our support for your country stops in 24 hours. We are helping Russia big time with their oil exploration and power plants. We leave and they stop pumping oil and the lights go out.
Its time our President steps up and plays hardball instead of ass kiss.
The only way we might have leverage is if we tell Iran,one nuke or threat of Israel and your oil fields go boom and ya’ll are back to humping camels.
We could follow it up by asking, very diplomatically, “You don’t want us to do that again, do you?”
Asking why “they” have such hatred for us is valid, up to a point, I suppose.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0927/p1s1-wogi.html
Interesting in the context of when it was written, isn’t it? I feel there is a good bit of validity to the humiliation answer. If I fervently believe in a system of government that was shown repeatedly to be ineffective and the culture I loathe has a system of government that is shown repeatedly to be effective, I guess it would be natural to view that as humiliation.
Many people, when confronted with failure, will go into denial. The failure is the fault of someone other than me. In this case, the culprit is America (in their eyes). It’s not the same thing as saying they are envious of us. They simply haven’t been able to face up to the fact that our system of government (even with all its’ shortcomings) is better than theirs. So like belligerent children, they lash out at the perceived cause of their suffering, rather than owning up to the fact that they themselves are the cause of their suffering.
Now with that being said let me ask a question. Do we have time to “parent” these belligerent children into socially proper behavior? Or do we simply do what’s in the best interest of our nation and let them work it out for themselves (if they can)? I would agree that we are not the world’s police, but when the situation affects us, as terrorism does, then we must do something to protect America’s interest. Protecting America’s interests doesn’t make us “world police” IMHO.
I never though I would say this. G.W. Bush is more of a diplomat that a fair number of folk here. I am satisfied his statement “Nothing is off the table” carries the message to the folks who are actually listening.
The wack-job running Iran is probably not listening, but he would not listen if the message was any rougher. He is after all in direct communication with God.
Hopefully, he will be so focused on the bomb and the destruction of the various “Great Satans” that he will totally ignore the economy and welfare of his people.
Besides, given GWB’s slipping ratings in the polls and in the Congress, I suspect he does not have enough political capital to engage in a spirited game of “T” ball, let alone hardball with the big boys.
I could be wrong.
Simple
Reference the Russian inventory of working ICBMs. I am sure that they (just like us) have kept enough inventory to wipe out any country.
Putin is scared to death of the Chinese and of the Islamic threat to his country. He can’t use nukes on the Muslims (just yet) but he can protect Russia until he can tear it back from the Russian Mafia.
Putin is changing the “Russian Democracy” slowly but surely back to a dictatorship. With him, of course, the new Dictator.
Reference Iran, my theory is that they got some of the Urkranian nukes which showed up missing some years ago. They either bought them or stole them or they were given to them. But how ever they got them they are already matched and mounted on their longest range missiles.
Sure they are going to build more, when they will be finished is immaterial. They are goating Bush and the rest of us so that we will attack. After we attack they can use their nukes and claim self defense. The world will be against us and they will win not only in the Muslim world but in the western world also.
What do they get out of it? Satisfaction and the blessings of Allah. Revenge against the Christians, crusaders and infidels. They might even get concessions, new slaves and control over the ME.
There are supposedly 200 missing nukes, that is not counting the ones that have been inventoried as destroyed but were not (IMHO).
No proof, only rumors, but it sure would explain the Iranian President and his Superiour Leader’s attitudes and threats.
Anyway, I have a huge supply of everything to keep my family alive and fairly confortable. I also have lots of guns, ammo and like minded friends.
I hope you start planning for the worst also.
Papa Ray
West Texas
USA
I’m not TRYING to be diplomatic, though SS.
Matt,
you need to argue with facts not fiction
This was an unverified article (Russian bragging about miraculous weapons Systems where have we seen these before) no one has seen nor heard of nor do they have the Rubles to pay for them. Deploying weapon systems require more than a simple launcher - guidance telemerty
Please be nice, debate is fine hostility is not, i grow tired of correcting your outbursts
Yes, Eric. Don’t let facts interfere with your opinions!
Who acts more like a democrat? “I’m never wrong” Eric, or “Here are the facts” Squawk, or “Here’s the figures from reliable sources” Matt?
I’m thinking some folks ought to use their two eyes more than their ten fingers.
#60 Papa Ray
That’s the most believable syllogism I’ve seen on the issue. If they already have “ready made” nukes, goading us into an attack to prevent them from “rolling their own” is an ideal way to “justify” their already-preconceived actions.
Wino,
That was an article interviewing another bragging Russian general from a country that has demobilised its strategic launching facilities and sold the missles to private contractors for launching satelites
My references are Janes weapons systems 2002 2003
His reference was a UPI article
Thanks for your timely and informed comments as usual
Also for the reading impaired
i said they don;t realistically have a ICBM capability I also said they have cruise missles with 1500+ mile capabilities that can be delivered by ground/air/sea
And yes they have enough warheads to lite up any sky
#65 Eric
When did you get elected the arbiter of fact? You constantly get shown to have no basis for your posts, yet you persist in calling others’ arguments baseless.
Try this, next time:
“Wolf! Wolf!”
It worked famously for that shepherd boy, didn’t it?
You America hater. You bushbot. No I’m not, Yes you are. blah blah blah.
No one in here has 1st hand knowledge of these issues. If they do they are either Cointel or in violation of an oath. All of us are depending on sources of information of varying degrees of respectability and reliablility.
Leave you childishness for the sandbox.
Wino,
I just cited my sources Wino, that’s what a debate is about
Now you can call names all you want
It still doesn’t change what the source or the facts
Matt may be right this russian general may have all these super weapon systems with billion dollar price tags waiting to be deployed from a country that couldn’t launch sputnik without UUSA aid and cash
Jaimie
Your right
Eric Johnson
#62
I have resisted this for two weeks now.
WHAT!!! You calling for debate over hositility, when I suffered insult after insult from the likes of you, all the while treating you with respect. You got a lot of nerve.
You better take a long hard look in your own backyard ERIC before telling anyone how they should not be hostile.
#69 Eric
Call names? You are the one who constantly causes others to question your credibility when you call Squawkbox a socialist. I’ve been reading his posts for several years. “Socialist” isn’t even CLOSE to what he espouses.
Yet you, a relative newcomer think you should be listened to because of your own inflated opinion of yourself.
Any counter source offered is dismissed, and your sources touted as if they were gospel truth; God himself has ordained your opinions, apparently.
You are a boor. I have had zero respect for you ever since you let several folks here assume you were in the military due to your location and your constant references to the soldiers there with you. You purposely misled folks, and waited weeks to dispute the assumptions.
I have nothing but contempt for you, and I don’t expect that opinion to change anytime soon.
I’ve “been there” and I’ve “done that.” I feel no need to justify myself or my opinions to the likes of you. You can continue with your arrogant ways. You are winning no converts here with your prose.
I should probably apologize for being so direct, but it seems that veiled references to your duplicity and subtly stating my contempt don’t break through the armor of self-importance you possess.
I won’t post to your comments again, until you change your attitude.
To the moderators: I apologize for stepping over the line in this post, but I felt it was needed. I won’t do so again. Sometimes a direct reply is the ONLY thing that works for some people.
Okay, Eric doesn’t like UPI. He prefers four-year-old copies of Jane’s. Well, tough cookies, E. Here’s what the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists says:
And here’s a little from CDI:
Now please come back with something other than sticking your fingers in your ears and saying “LALALALA I can’t hear you LALALALA”
Wino, how about some marketing with that: “Let’s see that again in slow motion”, or, “This is your brain, this is your brain on 10,000 rads. Any questions?”. It needs to be catchy. George Santayana would likely agree after WW2 and Hitler and Japan that ignoring Iran and Islamic terrorism was tantamount to failing to learn from history.
#74 Big45Iron
I think I’ve proven here, time and again, diplomacy is NOT my strong suit.
I’m very effective at making my opinion known, though.
BAN HIM! BAN HIM!
#76 headshaker
I do not espouse banning anyone, ever. Those who disagree should be cultivated, not censored.
Unless you’re talking about me, which I fully understand. I’m the biggest offender here. I just do it with correct spelling and reasoned diatribes.
Eric, I’ve agreed with alot of your posts in the past. But you seem to want to poke your finger in the eye of everybody in here. I’m not sure why. Squawk and Sarge and most everybody else in here is pretty darned conservative. We might not all agree on all the issues, or how to solve them, or even on which are more important. But overall, 95% of the people posting here would be considered conservative. There’s maybe two or three that I have any consistent problems with, and I just ignore them now. I suspect if you do the same, you might just end up talking to yourself here. These folks are not the enemy. They’re not liberals (the internal enemy). Count the number of folks who post here, then count the number that support you on most issues. If you find that a sizeable majority here to not agree with you on most things, you might want to look at your own positions and the viability of them. I’m not saying don’t defend your positions, but be ready to fall back on Kipling’s poem, “If for Boys”:
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
http://freedomlaw.com/IFKiplng.html
#76 headshaker
hmmmmm, just what I was thinking hehehe.
Matt,
Buliten of Atomic Scientist is a doomsday cult- notice the doomsday clock they have ticking on their website
sorry
Actually was reading that the russians Can Build
One Bomber per year(gasp) and maybe 6 missles but only 45% of the funds have arrived
And guess what Matt, they sell those missles to launch Satelites for European companies
Also even Global Security. org (a looney toons) even has the disclaimers
“Even thought the Russians Claim to have a Nuclear Umbrella most scientist concur that most warheads are non-operational and most missles are inactive”
If thats what the looneys say………………..
And besides whats your point - The chinese have 20 Css4 missles made for them by the Russians in 1953. You can bet they are NON-operational
Also, Russia has always lied every single time, they have lied and killed and maimed people until Reagan Delpoyed offensive nuclear weapons in europe
(And my friend, if they had this massive armada they would have A. not surrendered b. launched)
Or now do you think the cold war didn’t exist because of an interview with a russian general?
smacktle, you and headshaker are going to have to start wearing nametags for us to tell you apart.
Matt,
Its been fun, honestly
Please do not fly to russia and try to get some old weapon systems online so Eric can be wrong about Bush’ spending and the fact you pay lower taxes than under Clinton
I admire your passion
Good night
I’ve got to negotiate some real-estate tomorrow
#77 Wino
Not you.
He’s a troll (yes you know who you are). He talks down to people, insults their intelligence, namecalls, etc., just to get attention.
He’s one arrogant F**K (that’s the Swedish in him), who argues merely for the sake of arguing, because he has nothing better to do (like contribute to society in a positive manner).
Ban me too.
HS (YWWISMH)
Ban me too.
NOPE
Big,
I resemble that remark!
Squawk
ahhh, you were just proven wrong…….
You don’t have to like it
If you want to advocate a socialist position as I advocate a Conservative position then we attach labels to ourselves
#79 Smackie
Do it, do it, do it!
HS aka “The Weasel”
No, I think it did exist. I think the weapons they had pointed at us were real, and still are.
Eric Johnson
You are now N.W.O.R.
I give up.. NWOR?
Not Worthy Of Reply
Big,
I understand what you’re saying but I don’t have a problem arguing facts
My posts are facts with logic derived
Budget reports
Congressional Reports
Posting the constitution
Squawk has many good points right up to the time he wanted to vote for Hillary Clinton
well can’t really call that conservative and since he said it can’t call him a liar -
Hillary is a proud socialist - and he said he only votes for candidates he associates with
And your right, but Matts problem is something completely outside this blog so he’s making feeble attempts to discredit me
this too will end
Matts a good guy
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